Renaming blacklisting feature input

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Renaming blacklisting feature input

Tom Graves-2
Hey Folks,

We have jira https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SPARK-32037 to rename the blacklisting feature.  It would be nice to come to a consensus on what we want to call that.
It doesn't looks like we have any references to whitelist other then from other components.  There is some discussion on the jira and I linked to what some other projects have done so please take a look at that.

A few options:
 - blocklist
 - denylist
 - healthy /HealthTracker
 - quarantined
 - benched
 - exiled
 - banlist

Please let me know thoughts and suggestions.


Thanks,
Tom
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Re: Renaming blacklisting feature input

Alexander Shorin

Just no changes? Name provides no issues and is pretty clear about its intentions. Racist links are quite overminded.

--
,,^..^,,


On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 5:19 PM Tom Graves <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hey Folks,

We have jira https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SPARK-32037 to rename the blacklisting feature.  It would be nice to come to a consensus on what we want to call that.
It doesn't looks like we have any references to whitelist other then from other components.  There is some discussion on the jira and I linked to what some other projects have done so please take a look at that.

A few options:
 - blocklist
 - denylist
 - healthy /HealthTracker
 - quarantined
 - benched
 - exiled
 - banlist

Please let me know thoughts and suggestions.


Thanks,
Tom
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Re: Renaming blacklisting feature input

Sean Owen-2
I know this kind of argument has bounced around not just within the
ASF but outside too. While we should feel open to debate here, even if
I don't think it will get anywhere new, let me suggest it won't matter
to the decision process here, so, not worth it.

We should discuss this type of change like any other. If a portion of
the community, and committers/PMC accept that this is at the least a
small, positive change for some, then we start with a legitimate
proposal: there is an identifiable positive. Arguments against should
be grounded in specific reasons there are more significant harms than
benefits. (One clear issue: API compatibility, which I believe is
still intended to be entirely preserved).

I'd merely say that if one's position is only "meh, this does not
matter to me, this change doesn't improve my world", it's not worth
arguing with the people to which it matters at least a little. Changes
happen here all the time that I don't care about or even distantly
make my work a little harder. Doesn't mean either position is right-er
even, we don't need to decide that.

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 9:33 AM Alexander Shorin <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> Just no changes? Name provides no issues and is pretty clear about its intentions. Racist links are quite overminded.
>
> --
> ,,^..^,,
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 5:19 PM Tom Graves <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hey Folks,
>>
>> We have jira https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SPARK-32037 to rename the blacklisting feature.  It would be nice to come to a consensus on what we want to call that.
>> It doesn't looks like we have any references to whitelist other then from other components.  There is some discussion on the jira and I linked to what some other projects have done so please take a look at that.
>>
>> A few options:
>>  - blocklist
>>  - denylist
>>  - healthy /HealthTracker
>>  - quarantined
>>  - benched
>>  - exiled
>>  - banlist
>>
>> Please let me know thoughts and suggestions.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Tom

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Re: Renaming blacklisting feature input

Alexander Shorin
Hi Sean!

Your point is good and I accept it, but I thought it worth to remind yet again that ASF isn't limited by the US and the world is not limited by English language and as the result shouldn't be limited by some people's personal issue - there are specialists around who can help with these. 

P.S. Sorry if my response was a bit quite disrespectful, but the intention was to remind that blindly renaming all the things around is not a solution - let's think world wide or at least about compatibility issues which somehow should be handled? And what will be motivation for people to handle them?

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 5:57 PM Sean Owen <[hidden email]> wrote:
I know this kind of argument has bounced around not just within the
ASF but outside too. While we should feel open to debate here, even if
I don't think it will get anywhere new, let me suggest it won't matter
to the decision process here, so, not worth it.

We should discuss this type of change like any other. If a portion of
the community, and committers/PMC accept that this is at the least a
small, positive change for some, then we start with a legitimate
proposal: there is an identifiable positive. Arguments against should
be grounded in specific reasons there are more significant harms than
benefits. (One clear issue: API compatibility, which I believe is
still intended to be entirely preserved).

I'd merely say that if one's position is only "meh, this does not
matter to me, this change doesn't improve my world", it's not worth
arguing with the people to which it matters at least a little. Changes
happen here all the time that I don't care about or even distantly
make my work a little harder. Doesn't mean either position is right-er
even, we don't need to decide that.

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 9:33 AM Alexander Shorin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Just no changes? Name provides no issues and is pretty clear about its intentions. Racist links are quite overminded.
>
> --
> ,,^..^,,
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 5:19 PM Tom Graves <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hey Folks,
>>
>> We have jira https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SPARK-32037 to rename the blacklisting feature.  It would be nice to come to a consensus on what we want to call that.
>> It doesn't looks like we have any references to whitelist other then from other components.  There is some discussion on the jira and I linked to what some other projects have done so please take a look at that.
>>
>> A few options:
>>  - blocklist
>>  - denylist
>>  - healthy /HealthTracker
>>  - quarantined
>>  - benched
>>  - exiled
>>  - banlist
>>
>> Please let me know thoughts and suggestions.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Tom
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Re: Renaming blacklisting feature input

Sean Owen-3
Sure, but these are English words. I don't think anybody argues that
it should be an issue to _everyone_, perhaps you. But you seem to
suggest that it shouldn't be an issue to _anyone_ because it isn't an
issue to many people. I don't think that works either. Ex: if someone
proposed a fix to the Chinese translation strings in an app, would we
say this is merely China-centric? I'd also suggest framing this as
"some people's personal issues" is dismissive, but maybe the choice of
words wasn't meant that way. (again, I think we'd never say, who cares
about the Chinese translation? that's just their personal issue.)

I read between the lines that you view this is as just some US English
speaker pet issue, so people like me must just not be global-minded. I
think the backgrounds of people you're interacting with here might
surprise you!

Constructively: what do you mean by specialists and 'blindly
renaming'? like, we shouldn't just pick a rename but go with some
well-accepted alternative name? That would be great to add as input
here.
If a rename isn't a solution -- and yes, nobody thinks this
single-handedly fixes social problems -- what would be a better one?

The compatibility concern is very much important. But I think you'll
see the proposal is not to break compatibility. Your review and input
on that technical dimension is valuable.

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 10:11 AM Alexander Shorin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Sean!
>
> Your point is good and I accept it, but I thought it worth to remind yet again that ASF isn't limited by the US and the world is not limited by English language and as the result shouldn't be limited by some people's personal issue - there are specialists around who can help with these.
>
> P.S. Sorry if my response was a bit quite disrespectful, but the intention was to remind that blindly renaming all the things around is not a solution - let's think world wide or at least about compatibility issues which somehow should be handled? And what will be motivation for people to handle them?
>

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Re: Renaming blacklisting feature input

Tom Graves-2
In reply to this post by Tom Graves-2
Any other feedback here?  The couple I've heard preferred in various conversations are excludeList and blockList.  If not I'll just make proposal on jira and continue discussion there and anyone interested can watch this jira.

Thanks,
Tom

On Tuesday, August 4, 2020, 09:19:01 AM CDT, Tom Graves <[hidden email]> wrote:


Hey Folks,

We have jira https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SPARK-32037 to rename the blacklisting feature.  It would be nice to come to a consensus on what we want to call that.
It doesn't looks like we have any references to whitelist other then from other components.  There is some discussion on the jira and I linked to what some other projects have done so please take a look at that.

A few options:
 - blocklist
 - denylist
 - healthy /HealthTracker
 - quarantined
 - benched
 - exiled
 - banlist

Please let me know thoughts and suggestions.


Thanks,
Tom