Naming policy for packages

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Naming policy for packages

Simon Dirmeier

Dear all,

I am currently developing two OSS extension packages for spark; one related to machine learning; one related to biological applications.
According to the trademark guidelines (https://spark.apache.org/trademarks.html) I am not allowed to use  Names derived from “Spark”, such as “sparkly”.

My question is if that is really the case or how stringent these guidelines are, given that so many spark packages (https://spark.apache.org/third-party-projects.html) contain Spark as name already. I already contacted the official email for questions like these, but didn't hear back until now.

Can anyone please shed light on this?
Thanks in advance!

Best,
Simon

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Re: Naming policy for packages

Sean Owen-3
You raise a great point, and we were just discussing this. The page is old and contains many projects that were listed before the trademarks we're being enforced. Some have renamed themselves. We will update the page and remove stale or noncompliant projects and ask those that need to change to do so. 

You are correct that the guidance you quote is current and should be followed. 

Note there is an exception for software identifiers. 

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 6:13 AM Simon Dirmeier <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear all,

I am currently developing two OSS extension packages for spark; one related to machine learning; one related to biological applications.
According to the trademark guidelines (https://spark.apache.org/trademarks.html) I am not allowed to use  Names derived from “Spark”, such as “sparkly”.

My question is if that is really the case or how stringent these guidelines are, given that so many spark packages (https://spark.apache.org/third-party-projects.html) contain Spark as name already. I already contacted the official email for questions like these, but didn't hear back until now.

Can anyone please shed light on this?
Thanks in advance!

Best,
Simon

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Re: Naming policy for packages

Simon Dirmeier

Hey,

thanks for clearning that up.
Imho this is somewhat unfortunate, because package names that contain "spark", somewhat promote and advertise Apache Spark, right?

Best,
Simon

Am 15.08.18 um 14:00 schrieb Sean Owen:
You raise a great point, and we were just discussing this. The page is old and contains many projects that were listed before the trademarks we're being enforced. Some have renamed themselves. We will update the page and remove stale or noncompliant projects and ask those that need to change to do so. 

You are correct that the guidance you quote is current and should be followed. 

Note there is an exception for software identifiers. 

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 6:13 AM Simon Dirmeier <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear all,

I am currently developing two OSS extension packages for spark; one related to machine learning; one related to biological applications.
According to the trademark guidelines (https://spark.apache.org/trademarks.html) I am not allowed to use  Names derived from “Spark”, such as “sparkly”.

My question is if that is really the case or how stringent these guidelines are, given that so many spark packages (https://spark.apache.org/third-party-projects.html) contain Spark as name already. I already contacted the official email for questions like these, but didn't hear back until now.

Can anyone please shed light on this?
Thanks in advance!

Best,
Simon


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Re: Naming policy for packages

rxin
Unfortunately that’s an Apache foundation policy and the Spark community has no power to change it. My understanding: The reason Spark can’t be in the name is because if it is used frequently enough, the foundation would lose the Spark trademark. Cheers. 

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 7:19 AM Simon Dirmeier <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hey,

thanks for clearning that up.
Imho this is somewhat unfortunate, because package names that contain "spark", somewhat promote and advertise Apache Spark, right?

Best,
Simon

Am 15.08.18 um 14:00 schrieb Sean Owen:
You raise a great point, and we were just discussing this. The page is old and contains many projects that were listed before the trademarks we're being enforced. Some have renamed themselves. We will update the page and remove stale or noncompliant projects and ask those that need to change to do so. 

You are correct that the guidance you quote is current and should be followed. 

Note there is an exception for software identifiers. 

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 6:13 AM Simon Dirmeier <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear all,

I am currently developing two OSS extension packages for spark; one related to machine learning; one related to biological applications.
According to the trademark guidelines (https://spark.apache.org/trademarks.html) I am not allowed to use  Names derived from “Spark”, such as “sparkly”.

My question is if that is really the case or how stringent these guidelines are, given that so many spark packages (https://spark.apache.org/third-party-projects.html) contain Spark as name already. I already contacted the official email for questions like these, but didn't hear back until now.

Can anyone please shed light on this?
Thanks in advance!

Best,
Simon


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Re: Naming policy for packages

Koert Kuipers
mhhh thats somewhat unfortunate?

its helpful to me that something is called say spark-xml, it tells me its xml for spark! any other name would probably be less informative.

or is this still allowed?


On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 11:35 AM, Reynold Xin <[hidden email]> wrote:
Unfortunately that’s an Apache foundation policy and the Spark community has no power to change it. My understanding: The reason Spark can’t be in the name is because if it is used frequently enough, the foundation would lose the Spark trademark. Cheers. 

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 7:19 AM Simon Dirmeier <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hey,

thanks for clearning that up.
Imho this is somewhat unfortunate, because package names that contain "spark", somewhat promote and advertise Apache Spark, right?

Best,
Simon

Am 15.08.18 um 14:00 schrieb Sean Owen:
You raise a great point, and we were just discussing this. The page is old and contains many projects that were listed before the trademarks we're being enforced. Some have renamed themselves. We will update the page and remove stale or noncompliant projects and ask those that need to change to do so. 

You are correct that the guidance you quote is current and should be followed. 

Note there is an exception for software identifiers. 

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 6:13 AM Simon Dirmeier <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear all,

I am currently developing two OSS extension packages for spark; one related to machine learning; one related to biological applications.
According to the trademark guidelines (https://spark.apache.org/trademarks.html) I am not allowed to use  Names derived from “Spark”, such as “sparkly”.

My question is if that is really the case or how stringent these guidelines are, given that so many spark packages (https://spark.apache.org/third-party-projects.html) contain Spark as name already. I already contacted the official email for questions like these, but didn't hear back until now.

Can anyone please shed light on this?
Thanks in advance!

Best,
Simon



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Re: Naming policy for packages

Sean Owen-3
You might be interested in the full policy: https://spark.apache.org/trademarks.html

What it is trying to prevent is confusion. Is spark-xml from the Spark project? Sounds like it but who knows ? What is a vendor releases ASFSpark 3.0? Are people going to think this is an official real project release?

You can release 'Foo for Apache Spark'. You can use shorthand like foo-spark in software identifiers like Maven coordinates.

Keeping trademark rights is essential in OSS and part of it is making an effort to assert that right. 

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 8:44 AM Koert Kuipers <[hidden email]> wrote:
mhhh thats somewhat unfortunate?

its helpful to me that something is called say spark-xml, it tells me its xml for spark! any other name would probably be less informative.

or is this still allowed?


On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 11:35 AM, Reynold Xin <[hidden email]> wrote:
Unfortunately that’s an Apache foundation policy and the Spark community has no power to change it. My understanding: The reason Spark can’t be in the name is because if it is used frequently enough, the foundation would lose the Spark trademark. Cheers. 

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 7:19 AM Simon Dirmeier <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hey,

thanks for clearning that up.
Imho this is somewhat unfortunate, because package names that contain "spark", somewhat promote and advertise Apache Spark, right?

Best,
Simon

Am 15.08.18 um 14:00 schrieb Sean Owen:
You raise a great point, and we were just discussing this. The page is old and contains many projects that were listed before the trademarks we're being enforced. Some have renamed themselves. We will update the page and remove stale or noncompliant projects and ask those that need to change to do so. 

You are correct that the guidance you quote is current and should be followed. 

Note there is an exception for software identifiers. 

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 6:13 AM Simon Dirmeier <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear all,

I am currently developing two OSS extension packages for spark; one related to machine learning; one related to biological applications.
According to the trademark guidelines (https://spark.apache.org/trademarks.html) I am not allowed to use  Names derived from “Spark”, such as “sparkly”.

My question is if that is really the case or how stringent these guidelines are, given that so many spark packages (https://spark.apache.org/third-party-projects.html) contain Spark as name already. I already contacted the official email for questions like these, but didn't hear back until now.

Can anyone please shed light on this?
Thanks in advance!

Best,
Simon



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Re: Naming policy for packages

0xF0F0F0
Does it mean that majority of Spark related projects, including top Datatbricks (https://github.com/databricks?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=spark&type=&language=) or RStudio (sparklyr) contributions, violate the trademark?


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‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On August 15, 2018 5:51 PM, Sean Owen <[hidden email]> wrote:

You might be interested in the full policy: https://spark.apache.org/trademarks.html

What it is trying to prevent is confusion. Is spark-xml from the Spark project? Sounds like it but who knows ? What is a vendor releases ASFSpark 3.0? Are people going to think this is an official real project release?

You can release 'Foo for Apache Spark'. You can use shorthand like foo-spark in software identifiers like Maven coordinates.

Keeping trademark rights is essential in OSS and part of it is making an effort to assert that right. 

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 8:44 AM Koert Kuipers <[hidden email]> wrote:
mhhh thats somewhat unfortunate?

its helpful to me that something is called say spark-xml, it tells me its xml for spark! any other name would probably be less informative.

or is this still allowed?


On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 11:35 AM, Reynold Xin <[hidden email]> wrote:
Unfortunately that’s an Apache foundation policy and the Spark community has no power to change it. My understanding: The reason Spark can’t be in the name is because if it is used frequently enough, the foundation would lose the Spark trademark. Cheers. 

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 7:19 AM Simon Dirmeier <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hey,

thanks for clearning that up.
Imho this is somewhat unfortunate, because package names that contain "spark", somewhat promote and advertise Apache Spark, right?

Best,
Simon


Am 15.08.18 um 14:00 schrieb Sean Owen:
You raise a great point, and we were just discussing this. The page is old and contains many projects that were listed before the trademarks we're being enforced. Some have renamed themselves. We will update the page and remove stale or noncompliant projects and ask those that need to change to do so. 

You are correct that the guidance you quote is current and should be followed. 

Note there is an exception for software identifiers. 


On Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 6:13 AM Simon Dirmeier <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear all,

I am currently developing two OSS extension packages for spark; one related to machine learning; one related to biological applications.
According to the trademark guidelines (https://spark.apache.org/trademarks.html) I am not allowed to use  Names derived from “Spark”, such as “sparkly”.
My question is if that is really the case or how stringent these guidelines are, given that so many spark packages (https://spark.apache.org/third-party-projects.html) contain Spark as name already. I already contacted the official email for questions like these, but didn't hear back until now.

Can anyone please shed light on this?
Thanks in advance!

Best,
Simon


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Re: Naming policy for packages

Sean Owen-3
I'd refer you again to the trademark policy. In the first link I see projects whose software ID is like "spark-foo" but title/subtitle is like "Foo for Apache Spark". This is OK. 'sparklyr' is in a gray area we've talked about before; see https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/ as well. I think it's in a gray area, myself.

My best advice to anyone is to avoid this entirely by just not naming your project anything like 'spark'. 

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:39 AM <[hidden email]> wrote:
Does it mean that majority of Spark related projects, including top Datatbricks (https://github.com/databricks?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=spark&type=&language=) or RStudio (sparklyr) contributions, violate the trademark?


Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On August 15, 2018 5:51 PM, Sean Owen <[hidden email]> wrote:

You might be interested in the full policy: https://spark.apache.org/trademarks.html

What it is trying to prevent is confusion. Is spark-xml from the Spark project? Sounds like it but who knows ? What is a vendor releases ASFSpark 3.0? Are people going to think this is an official real project release?

You can release 'Foo for Apache Spark'. You can use shorthand like foo-spark in software identifiers like Maven coordinates.

Keeping trademark rights is essential in OSS and part of it is making an effort to assert that right. 

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Re: Naming policy for packages

Koert Kuipers
ok it doesnt sound so bad if the maven identifier can have spark it in. no big deal!

otherwise i was going to suggest "kraps". like kraps-xml

scala> "spark".reverse
res0: String = kraps


On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 2:43 PM, Sean Owen <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'd refer you again to the trademark policy. In the first link I see projects whose software ID is like "spark-foo" but title/subtitle is like "Foo for Apache Spark". This is OK. 'sparklyr' is in a gray area we've talked about before; see https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/ as well. I think it's in a gray area, myself.

My best advice to anyone is to avoid this entirely by just not naming your project anything like 'spark'. 

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:39 AM <[hidden email]> wrote:
Does it mean that majority of Spark related projects, including top Datatbricks (https://github.com/databricks?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=spark&type=&language=) or RStudio (sparklyr) contributions, violate the trademark?


Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On August 15, 2018 5:51 PM, Sean Owen <[hidden email]> wrote:

You might be interested in the full policy: https://spark.apache.org/trademarks.html

What it is trying to prevent is confusion. Is spark-xml from the Spark project? Sounds like it but who knows ? What is a vendor releases ASFSpark 3.0? Are people going to think this is an official real project release?

You can release 'Foo for Apache Spark'. You can use shorthand like foo-spark in software identifiers like Maven coordinates.

Keeping trademark rights is essential in OSS and part of it is making an effort to assert that right. 


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Re: Naming policy for packages

rxin
craps? :(

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 11:47 AM Koert Kuipers <[hidden email]> wrote:
ok it doesnt sound so bad if the maven identifier can have spark it in. no big deal!

otherwise i was going to suggest "kraps". like kraps-xml

scala> "spark".reverse
res0: String = kraps


On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 2:43 PM, Sean Owen <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'd refer you again to the trademark policy. In the first link I see projects whose software ID is like "spark-foo" but title/subtitle is like "Foo for Apache Spark". This is OK. 'sparklyr' is in a gray area we've talked about before; see https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/ as well. I think it's in a gray area, myself.

My best advice to anyone is to avoid this entirely by just not naming your project anything like 'spark'. 

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:39 AM <[hidden email]> wrote:
Does it mean that majority of Spark related projects, including top Datatbricks (https://github.com/databricks?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=spark&type=&language=) or RStudio (sparklyr) contributions, violate the trademark?


Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On August 15, 2018 5:51 PM, Sean Owen <[hidden email]> wrote:

You might be interested in the full policy: https://spark.apache.org/trademarks.html

What it is trying to prevent is confusion. Is spark-xml from the Spark project? Sounds like it but who knows ? What is a vendor releases ASFSpark 3.0? Are people going to think this is an official real project release?

You can release 'Foo for Apache Spark'. You can use shorthand like foo-spark in software identifiers like Maven coordinates.

Keeping trademark rights is essential in OSS and part of it is making an effort to assert that right. 


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Re: Naming policy for packages

Mark Hamstra
In reply to this post by Koert Kuipers
While it is permissible to have a maven identify like "spark-foo" from "org.bar", I'll agree with Sean that avoiding that kind of name is often wiser. It is just too easy to slip into prohibited usage if the most popular, de facto identification turns out to become "spark-foo" instead of something like "Foo for Apache Spark". 

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 11:47 AM Koert Kuipers <[hidden email]> wrote:
ok it doesnt sound so bad if the maven identifier can have spark it in. no big deal!

otherwise i was going to suggest "kraps". like kraps-xml

scala> "spark".reverse
res0: String = kraps


On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 2:43 PM, Sean Owen <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'd refer you again to the trademark policy. In the first link I see projects whose software ID is like "spark-foo" but title/subtitle is like "Foo for Apache Spark". This is OK. 'sparklyr' is in a gray area we've talked about before; see https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/ as well. I think it's in a gray area, myself.

My best advice to anyone is to avoid this entirely by just not naming your project anything like 'spark'. 

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:39 AM <[hidden email]> wrote:
Does it mean that majority of Spark related projects, including top Datatbricks (https://github.com/databricks?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=spark&type=&language=) or RStudio (sparklyr) contributions, violate the trademark?


Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On August 15, 2018 5:51 PM, Sean Owen <[hidden email]> wrote:

You might be interested in the full policy: https://spark.apache.org/trademarks.html

What it is trying to prevent is confusion. Is spark-xml from the Spark project? Sounds like it but who knows ? What is a vendor releases ASFSpark 3.0? Are people going to think this is an official real project release?

You can release 'Foo for Apache Spark'. You can use shorthand like foo-spark in software identifiers like Maven coordinates.

Keeping trademark rights is essential in OSS and part of it is making an effort to assert that right. 


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Re: Naming policy for packages

880f0464
IANAL, however in case of any legal action ASAF might have a pretty weak case
for at least two reasons:

- Spark is a common word and its usage in the names of software projects (in
different) form is widespread and precedes release of Apache Spark. For
example outside data processing community it's often confused with older and
still actively developed Spark Java project.
- spark-*  naming can be defended as an example of permitted nominative
usage.

Although I concur with the previous statements - it is better to avoid it.



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